The Elephant in the Church
Just thought I'd do a little blog brainstorm on our next sermon series.
We'll kick off a series this weekend titled The Elephant in the Church. The series plays off the old idiom: the elephant in the room. It's a reference to obvious truths that everyone ignores. I want it to be a series where we honestly and humbly acknowledge the church's shortcomings, but give it a positive spin by talking about how we are the church and we can be a solution to the problem.
I'd love to draw on the wisdom of the blogosphere. What are some taboo topics we ought to be talking about? What are some confessions the church needs to make? What are those issues that everybody is thinking about but nobody is talking about?
What are the elephants in the church?
82 Comments:
the church is homophobic.
southern churches are racist.
church people are all middle-class, white, republicans.
check out "they like Jesus but not the church" by Dan Kimball.
How can the church claim to know the only way to heaven?
Lots of people in church treat it like the corner grocery store. "I'm here to get what I need, and if you don't have it, I'll go to the other store down the street."
Oh, man, there are SO many. But my top four would be:
1) We spend most of our money on ourselves. We pay lip service to the "widows and orphans" thing, but in reality we really just want better bands, more charismatic speakers, and more comfortable seats.
2) We don't really live out Christ's commandment to "love one another." We think it sounds good, but we'd rather just have our churches be REALLY good at marketing instead.
3) We don't seriously ask people to consider the cost of following Christ. We think that whole "take up your cross and follow me" thing makes sense for missionaries, and maybe some pastors and staff, but not really anybody else. We just want to have a good job, and nice house, and live comfortably. We don't really want to hear that death imagery that Jesus liked to use with His followers.
4) Church leadership is more than willing to allow the top 3 to keep money-giving members in the seats each week.
1) Porn, masturbation, sleeping with someone you're unmarried to, and other sexual sins of our culture.
2) Long-term commitment for the transformation of a specific city.
3) Charismatic gifts.
Todays church is one of domestication and idleness. Instead of asking people to live outside of their comfort zone and reach out to others in love, todays church creates a sort of safe cocoone in which to safely wait for death.
Todays church is not for the artist, the musician, or the free spirit. It is only for conservative republicans.
The country club nature of the church to be self-serving and the "what's in it for me" views.
Are churches really welcoming everyone with open arms? How much prejudice still goes on within the doors of the church?
A life lived for Christ involves radical change. Roll up the sleeves and get dirty mentality.
we're doing this series right now...simply called "issues"
topics include abortion, homosexuality, drinking, pornography and divorce.
oakleafchurch.com
Why are there some many churches in every city and why can't they work together? Why does every church need its own version of every ministry?
I think one of the major elephants in the church is the lack of accountability among the high-profile pastors and leaders. Just consider: Ted Haggard, Randy and Paula White, Bishop Thomas Weeks, etc.
Homosexuality. But then judging by the color of your elephant, you may already be covering that topic.
Great topic! I would say that alcohol is the big elephant in the Church. Seems to me that this is a Biblical grey area and b/c of that, most preachers will stay away from the topic.
Of course Church leaders (staff and non-staff) will be encouraged or required to not drink publically as to not cause others to stumble, but what does that mean for the general population?
Is it hypocritical for a Church leader to drink in moderation privately, giving the impression publically that they don't drink? Is drinking in moderation ok, and if so, what defines moderation?
The questions could continue...
women struggle with porn (read the comments here)
emotional affairs read the comments here)
Several of the comments relate to sexual sin...I'd like to suggest turning that around and teaching the fantastic beauty and wisdom of God's design for sexuality. I think the church has missed this big time, and our culture reflects it. I teach on this topic every week at a local Christian men's addiction recovery mission, and I have yet to meet a man who grew up with any kind of solid teaching from the church on this. They are often shocked by the Bible's candor and truth in this area. It covers so many other issues of our time: divorce, pornography, homosexuality, pre-marital sex, sexual addiction, etc.
The other big one I'd suggest is that church has lost its saltiness. Jesus commanded us to be salt and light, and I think the church has largely lost is relevance in the cultural battle for a Christian worldview.
God bless you for your ministry, Mark!
P.S. Greetings from Naperville ;)
I've attended church services before where:
- the musicians were off-beat
- the singers were off-key
- the preaching was boring
But then someone prays at the end thanking God for the wonderful service.
I think we sometimes lie about the quality of our services. If we don't lie verbally, we lie non-verbally in that we show up week after week, giving the impression that we're dedicated to the church when, in reality, we only attend because we feel we have to.
Note: I'm not talking any particular church here, just some I've attended in the past. I'm certainly not talking about NCC as I've never attended NCC.
What Love does.
the devastation porn causes.
country club mentality.
The importance of reaching children with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
purposeless churches.
really following Jesus in all that we say and do - being radically sold out to living life His way.
Would Jesus be Republican or Democrat? (obviously neither) but as others mentioned, attacking the idea that there is one party for Christians.
The importance of repentance and confession - to God and to others.
Creating safe and healing community within the church. We are all in recovery.
just a few. (and i do love the local church...really)
Another elephant: Anything that might be considered "anti-faith".
New headlines talk of Mother Teresa writing that she didn't feel God's presence over half her life.
Sometimes before prayer, especially in charismatic/pentecostal churches, preachers ask, "How many believe God's going to...?" I always hesitate to answer because I truthfully don't know what God is going to do. I only know what He can do. I've seen too many instances where God could have done something, but He didn't.
For example, God can restore lost fingers, arms, legs, etc., but He doesn't.
My biggest concern, especially in my area of the country (the deep South), is that of apathy and prejudice. I am not talking about racial prejudice, but prejudice among the denominations. Jesus left us one commandment, in which his ministry totally encompassed and that is love God and love people. Why is it so hard for Christ followers to do this? Why can't we agree to disagree on some doctrinal differences, but work together to achieve the one purpose that we are here for, furthering the kingdom of God by loving Him and others (not just others who are like us and agree with us)
1) The church as a whole is as much a place of hate as it is of love. We have failed.
2) Church unity. It is frequently mentioned by Jesus, but seldom talked about from the pulpit. Not just within the church, but across The Church (globally).
3) The church has a lot of disagreements, none of which matter as much as "Jesus Loves You"
I would echo a lot of the issues that were already mentioned, but what I really am interested in seeing is how NCC handles a sermon on these issues. I'd imagine it will require a strong combination of boldness, courage and love.
I'd really love to see a sermon series that doesn't pull any punches on these controversial issues (homosexuality, abortion, etc.), but also sends the message with love.
Chase that lion!
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Some interesting (read: controversial) topics have already been brought up, but I'd love to hear a message about dealing with part-time Christianity, or what Craig Groeschel called "practical atheism." I think beyond all the specific issues (sexual sin, hypocrisy, etc.), Christians struggle with accepting what "I surrender all" truly means, because doing so requires us to be authentic with each other. We show up to church once a week wearing masks and then go back to our "normal" day-to-day lives after church. For some people, this lack of authenticity comes out of blind religiosity or an ingrained sense of duty or guilt. For others, though, it's out of genuine fear. As someone who is afraid of what my church would think if they found out who I really am, it's not surprising that there are a lot of Christians out there leading double lives. If this is supposed to be the family of God, then why does it feel like the last place I'd want to be myself?
Using Matthew 18 as the means to discuss issues within the body rather than saying we are using Matthew 18. I find there are way too many closed door meetings discussing issues so we can "pray" for the person when we are really gossipying or actually adding to the problem.
Most of these comments seem to be coming from church insiders. To me, what is more important is not the elephants that church people see in the church, but the elephants that society sees in the church, and therefore the reason they don't attend!
Society doesn't look at the church and worry about many of the issues mentioned in these comments. But than again, maybe those people aren't reading this blog. If they are, I would be interested to know what they think!
The body of Christ married to business principles that promote excellence and quantity, but lack humility, growth, passion, or risk of the raw ability of God.
Also, gossip is HUGE but we RARELY commit to accountability and Biblical confrontation.
Oh, another one:
Why does the church TALK about making an impact in the world, BUT expects the world to come to THEM, instead of us GOING to the world?
(And THEN you have to talk about modern-day evangelism verses Jesus' approach to evangelism).
I would suggest that the people from outside the church think that we are a bunch of hypocrits. They would probably say the same thing that Ghandi said, "I love your Christ, but I hate your Christians." and he also said that he would have became a Christian if it were not for the Christians. The problem is the church is so far removed from the culture in which we live, that they never see us. I mean they see us at work, but even there, we are either just like them or we seperate ourselves from them there as well. Maybe the church should start teaching followers how to be neighbors, partners at work, students at school, etc. Not how to be relevant, but how to be themselves. I think we tend to worry about relevance, that we forget who God created us to be. We need to learn to be comfortable in our own flesh.
a couple of elephants...
giving - society is more generous than the church
politics - the church has more mud slinging
selfish - church should meet my needs
power - everyone wants to be at the right hand of the father
holier than thou - is criticism a spiritual gift?
authentic - does this exist in church
courageous - most churches are too boring
adventurous - adventure is trying to live up to the expectations, not finding Gods plan
I believe a confession that needs to be made is that we (the church) do not love people the way that Christ called us to. I would love to see a church truly serve the poor, the homeless, and the dying as Jesus did. Not just throw money at it but actually do it. It seems that we want to talk about it but not do it. I am guilty of it myself so I guess this is my confession as well.
Money or the love of it is another big one. I had a problem for a while about chasing money in everything that I did. Hopefully I am leaving that behind and trying to live with less so I can give more which is the slogan of a new club that I just joined called the Junky Car Club. www.junkycarclub.com
Why do we as americans need and desire so much while most of the world lives with so little.
Thanks for your books Mark they were a great read when I needed a great read.
Tim (Birmingham, Al.)
Hi! Not sure this is an "elephant", but the references/differentiation between those "in ministry" and all others. I have served in a number of churches teaching Sunday School, in music ministry, etc., but my full time "ministry" is in IT support to federal government. I think we sell the body short when we talk about those "in ministry" and all others. We are all called to minister and most of Christ's ministry was not in a synagogue...it was right where people are, in the local community. That is where we are all called. And we need to be there....all the time and big time!!
Maybe guilt should be one of your topics. Seems like, based on these comments, there's an elephant full of it in the church.
Yeah, what they said. So many elephants. I think we are trying to make God like us rather then trying to be more like Jesus. We see Jesus and what He did, who He was through our own eyes/perspectives rather than seeing ourselves through His. Not sure if this is what you wanted. The elephant in church is what we've made church.
Let's be honest...We sometimes don't handle money approprately
We need to find a way to discuss loving people exactly as they are when they come Christ. Including Gay, or in a sexual relationship, or in debt, alone, family..... whatever. We need to do a better job of loving them
Laura
www.whenlifegetsmessy.blogspot.com
I've got to say, just reading these comments has been very enlightening.
Props to PM for opening this question up like this. It's very interesting to see what people think are the critical issues in the church.
GLUTTONY!!! FAT PEOPLE. I AM ONE
How little we are actually expected to love people different than ourselves -- whether that be nonchristian, different social class, different color, etc. Jesus loved everyone ...
i agree! i think the biggest elephant that people outside the church see inside the church is that they don't love unconditionally and without judgement! it's the greatest command, yet the least fulfilled, to love your neighbor!!! be a friend! be nice! smile! be real! be transparent! open your home! spend time with ppl outside of church w/out an agenda, except to be a friend! all part of loving one another!
I think the real problem after reading all these comments is maybe that a lot of people have problems, but no solutions? I could find something wrong with everything if I wanted. I choose not to do that. If I find something is wrong with something I ask myself, what can I do to be part of the solution? I think a lot of Christians want to be part of the solution to some of these issues, but they aren't sure how?
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Some of these have already been mentioned, here are the elephants that I see:
1. Racism (the church is the most racially and culturally divided place on earth)
2. Priesthood of believers (paid clergy do all the work of ministry while christians attend "bless me clubs")
3. Gluttony (it is sad the the church is known more for its potlucks than fasting)
4. G.ods O.wn P.arty (do we really think that Jesus is Republican? I am, but that doesn't mean my God is)
What a transparent and brave pastor to request comments like these! Let's keep him in prayer because he has another challenge before him.
Thanks for being man enough to address these things. As one living overseas doing ministry, I would say apathy towards the world. The church models selfishness by having 98-100% of it's staff focused on meeting the attenders needs (typically, of course there are exceptions). Maybe a volunteer or small team coordinates any type of work overseas. Teaching the body to be missional with it's treasure, talents and time is key. Can't wait to hear the podcasts.
www.camelcrossing.net
Sex, homosexuality, porn, are high-heat topics... but also things like divorce, honesty in life (w/ taxes, relationships, church politics etc), social action... are things we forget about but should address
One that we're dealing with on my site:
OT God vs NT God. Where is the love, man??
Pastor thanks for coming to Northway Church this summer. Your message was awesome and In a pit has me chasing my lions.
The truth is everyone struggles with these issues one way or another. I struggle with most of them. Most are in denial of that and the Church is no exception.
Churches are full of people who are in denial. Doing a series like this will give so many the strength and faith to step out and begin to be tranparent, real ,and truthful. I attend a recovery group at Northway called Celebrate Recovery, and every time Pastor Buddy does a series like this the attendance grows.
How about the "science vs. religion" debate?"
Did God really flood the entire earth for over 150 days, covering the tallest mountain with 20 ft of water, as the Bible says? Was Adam and Eve real people who talked to a serpent and were convinced to eat forbidden fruit? These are the things I'm studying in order to reach the adults for Christ.
Alcohol! I really get mad at the "It's not a sin to drink but..." crowd. We have fat preachers who don't drink but are gluttons, how backwards is that?
I not a big far of Mark Driscol most of the time but his essay on Alcohol was so dead on.
I wish the church would do a real study of what scripture has to say about it, not what tradition has to say.
Jacob, dang, you hit some doozies!
Makes me wonder about a future Sex, Drugs, and Rock&Roll series. That could attract some folks. It's like a God at the Billboards meets Sin series.
OK, everything. Seriously.
Money;
Sex (hetro- and homo-sexual, inside marriage and without);
Trust (it needs to be earned); Inclusion (churches are exclusive social clubs);
The way you indoctrinate children who don't know that they have options;
Property (Churches are huge land owners);
Taxation (why should a church be free from taxation?);
Science (denying proven science or established theories like evolution just makes you look stupid or willfully ignorant);
Hell (The whole do as we say or be damned thing bugs me);
Personal responsibility (God doesn't make you late for work, that was the bus);
Judging others (don't deny it);
Honesty (being able to say "I don't know" and then trying to find out rather than making something up)
That's just a start. As I said it's just about everything.
Virtous Mediocrity - settling for less than excellence because "we're working for God".
Evident in efforts in every denomination. Settling for "good enough"
Seth Godin says it great in his blog Is it good enough?
We as a church and Christians need to stop settling.
How about this: volunteer burnout. Churches, yes even NCC, rely heavily on their volunteers but dont often talk about what happens when they burn out, where they go or how they stay connected without the 24/7 contact that happens when you are involved in everything. We, especially we in D.C., know very little about balance.
One of the biggest elephants is the American Church system itself. It's corporate needs inadvertently forces us to spend a great deal of time to feed it so it can stay alive. Our livelihood and ministry become intertwined in its need to survive. Soon its survival overwhelms our ability to spend time creating disciples who can affect change the environment they live in. We become slaves to it. It keeps us awake at night. When the congregation doesn't cooperate we begin to blame them. Terms like "close the back door", "If they would only","Assimilation" and "stealing sheep", are symptoms of survival mode. The corporate system cannot tolerate such things if it is to exist. We need to change the system so we can be more free to do what we were truly called to do and get a good nights rest.
The multi-church site concept, partnering with those outside of our church and sharing resources are turns in the right direction. We just have to admit the shortcomings of the corporate system we do ministry in and adapt accordingly.
Well, there are certainly a lot here, but I surely hope this series doesn't focus on talking about problems with other churches. Let's be honest: we have issues too.
I don't go to church to have sex.
We often seem to care for the widows and elderly and lonely within our churces too little
we get so busy with our sub cultural christian events, studies and relationships that we have no real impact and onging incarnation in the lives of those not yet believers around us
The lack of men (non clergy) in the pews and in active service in the church.
* Effective administration to ensure a health church system.
* Weak leadership that is denied.
* Cover up, corruption, and incoherent organizational structures and communication/coordination so as to "blur" reality of the church systems so that the pastor (and his wife/family sometimes)can manipulate his career to his or her liking and enhance the likelihood of a long term pastorate and extended personal financial gain (of course all of this is not discussed and is colluded with by country club members of the pastor's "in group." and allow these dysfunctions to continue as they have no idea of how to make things different in any real and lasting way.
* Lay leadership in-breeding (to keep the status quote.)
* Homosexuality
* Rule and legalese to control the laity and staff
Just a few thoughts based on my experience.
Pastors flaming out and failing out. We all know people in these categories. Who's to blame?
Big Chris
Because I said so blog - http://mrclm.blogspot.com
Cynicism
http://www.amazon.com/Seeing-Through-Cynicism-Reconsideration-Suspicion/dp/0830833889/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-3640278-0870414?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1189077917&sr=8-1
Great Book
Wow,
I took yesterday off and came back to a plethora of comments :) Love the dialogue! Quite a few hot button issues. This is a very challenging series because I don't pretend to have all the answers and all of us (individuals and churches) have issues. But I hope the series is raw, honest, hopeful, and redemptive. I think it'll touch some nerve endings.
One thing I know for sure. When we don't speak out on issues we lose our voice and have no right to complain. We need to quit answering questions no one is asking and talking about what people are thinking about.
And we've got to be less politically correct and more biblically correct.
Thanks for the feedback!
Mark
Elephants:
church goers seem unnerved if someone demon possessed shows up to their place. Often they are escorted out. They are seen as disruptive or whatever. Jesus spent 50% of his ministry casting out demons. We’re too uncomfortable with people who are broken when they come to church.
Institutionalized love: I’d give anything to see the day when we didn’t have to have institutionalized “love” programs. Not that I am down on Alpha in any way but way too many people don’t know how to talk to newcomers and visitors. It’s a huge problem. We aren’t looking to love in all the right places. And often we aren’t willing to go the extra mile to greet a stranger. I can’t remember a time in my youth when my parents didn’t have strangers or visitors for lunch on Sunday. I think many people come to church and leave very lonely. That is very sad to me.
Healing and Power. Johnson says that the gospel without power is just religion and form. People should be able to walk into church and see the raw power of God on display. If it’s not in church then where? Where are we saying to our guests and friends “if you need a miracle in your body, come let us pray for you”. Or “if you are broken and have a place in your life that you need God to touch, come we want to pray for you.” It’s probably happening a great deal in small groups. But what about the percentages of church that don’t attend a small group? Jesus and the disciples seemed to have spent at least half of their ministries healing the sick and casting out demons. In numerous cases the word went out and set the stage for miracles to occur. How cool is that?!
Btw, I think NCC is great at a lot of these. But the “church” can do better.
Given that there is a clear mandate around loving one another, the lack of clarity and accountability regarding this indication of true discipleship is surprisingly ignored. Perhaps loving one another is actually to difficult to be really implement beyond the easy care giving.
My issue is how watered down it has become. Remember me talking about nit being able to find a church and how you responded sits with me now but it makes me nuts that during this time of search it seems that EVERY church is a seeker church.....or the guy ends up sounding like the church lady. (haha)
I know there is a need for seeker churches....I am not denying that and without finding one maybe I wouldnt be where I am but now that I am moving to a new place in my walk the church I attend just keeps on with the watered down stuff to the point where I have walked out of service because I was frusterated. I want a deep-rooted spiritual teaching.
Sorry, I will get off my soap box and again I know that church is a place where I can serve God and small groups end up taking us to a higher teaching/learning but I would still LOVE to find a church that has a service where they just....BRING IT! =)
the church is not only homophobic but we are molesterphobic. yes.. these may be the most challenging to love because of what they have done to a minor, but what if we had a service just for child molesters? or at least talked about it? what about abortion, death, disability, prejudice, divorce,
Speaking as a late-twenties single NCCer, I'd say that in DC, in my generation (and younger generations?) , use of porn and masturbation in this age of technology is becoming epidemic. I really think it's delaying marriage unhealthily for many people and also introducing serious struggles into many new marriages and relationships.
I love that in the spring, we'll have a 'River' small group and that we're going to train people to lead people on these and other issues. That's a great start, but I bet we could fill about 5 groups like that, tomorrow.
I think it one of the big one's is personally being accountable for winning people to the Lord. We want the church to put on great programmes, and make it all easy and with minimal effort. In a recent willow creek survey (well 2005) they found the average Christian only invites someone to church every 28 years. Yep years. One of the elephants in the room is 'who did you win personally to the Lord', the church may be growing but what percentage are doing the job?
I have often posted on my blog how church charities are almost always charities for the immediate needs of someone (homeless shelters or soup kitchens). How many are looking at what individual members of their church (or the church building itself) can do to mitigate Global Warming? In fact, with rare exception how many religious environmental charities do you know that even exist (let alone are well-known)?
How many have long-term revitalization plans for their communities? How many churches simply sell off their old church and build a new one further out in the 'burbs in order to follow the money... I mean.. the congregation.
How many MS/AIDS/Cancer Walks and fundraising drives for other diseases do you know are hosted or sponsored by a church? Just checking one recent walk here in my hometown was the American Cancer Society's Making Strides Against Breast Cancer Walk (sponsored by Walmart, Bank of America, Curves and Sam's Club). Is the minimum $100,000 donation to be a listed "corporate sponsor" too much money for the Catholic Church? Or even many Protestant churches?
Many churches I have been involved with and those that are active out there today do not have any long turn plans. Why have long term plans when Jesus is coming back any day? I believe I read recently that a 2006 AP poll showed that 25% of Americans believe that there was good chance that Jesus was coming back within a year. And does anyone wonder why a church filled with these people can't see beyond serving soup instead of a multi-decade environmental policy.
Just to go off on a tangent a bit; if you profess to be a Christian and you believe in the second coming of Christ and that his arrival is imminent then I hope to your god that you are not in government, business or in any decision-making position that involves a long-term policy. I would seriously distrust your judgment.
It is scary and uncomfortable to know Satan is in our heads and trying to control every thought we have. So, as with most scary and uncomfortable things, we try not to think/talk about it. Then it gets worse, becomes hopeless, and Satan chalks one up.
BUT JESUS GAVE US AUTHORITY AND POWER TO TELL SATAN TO GO TO HELL. No really! It's fine. All glory to God.
To frame it in elephant terms, some people want to believe in God and Jesus (particularly his love) but not Satan. But that's not real. I like to approach it with a focus on what God can "overcome" as opposed to what Satan can accomplish. This is what we will learn about in "Rescued by Christ" small group this Fall.
Reading through all these comments it seems to me that Christians are perceived as being judgmental hypocrites.
Hit us with your best shot, PM! I can't wait! Prayin' for you too.
Biblical errancy. We treat the text like the fourth person of the Trinity. Where does that come from? Maybe it's more finite, human, and imperfect a collection of documents than we pretend it is.
Maybe Jesus is the Word -- not the Bible.
Where is the man?
The one in the book…
I see your temple
Where’s the path that He took.
Where is the Plan?
The one from above…
I’ve heard of His teaching
But I can’t find the love
Show me your God
Show me He’s real
Pleasew take my hand
Help me feel what you feel
I’m searching for truth, this lie’s not enough
Can you help me escape to the bright side of Love?
So what’s the secret?
Why can’t I come?
I feel like an outsider, because you treat me like one
What do you mean?
With these words that you use
You’re “Saved by the blood”
I’m just confused
Show me your God
Show me He’s real
Here, take my hand
Help me feel what you feel
I’m searching for truth, this lie’s not enough
Help me escape to the bright side of Love
You say you’re a family
You’re brother and sis
Yet you fight at the table
Without sharing the Gift
Show me your God
Show me He’s real
Here, take my hand
Help me feel what you feel
I’m searching for truth, this lie’s not enough
Help me escape to the bright side of Love
What are the man made rules and which ones come from the Bible?
Why do so many Christians say it is a sin to drink when Jesus' first miracle was turning water into wine?
Is it about the rules or a relationship?
Grear discusion. Did you know that xxx church is now using a literal (inflatable) blue elephant to talk about their answer?:
http://davewainscott.blogspot.com/2007/09/blue-elephant-in-pew.html
Using elephant terminology: Church is primarily for women and small children.
Reality: The Church is not relevant to a good sized segment of the male population.
Worship, programs, life.
My suggestion: read "Why Men Hate Going to Church" and implement as much as possible.
http://www.churchformen.com
Why are we afraid of latino's? The biggest mission field in the last 40 years is moving here and we are missing the opportunity.
How about how churches are ok with people sleeping with someone we're not married to, but we'd never have a person who is homosexual in the church even if they're staying single?
Or the fact we don't recycle etc. but we're meant to be stewards of the earth?
Or that we have all this bizarre jargon - and we want to reach out to the poor?
We have spare rooms in our houses, yet there are people homeless.
We like to talk about how we're all 'family' but do we actually see each other outside of a sunday service/housegroup meeting and spend life together warts and all?
I don't believe neither in heaven nor in hell! support@starkaz.com
Anonymous,
Totally respect your right to form your own opinion. Everybody believes something and none of us can prove it because we're all stuck on this side of the space-time continuum. But eternity is a long time so it is probably worth taking another look at what you believe.
Love for you to listen to the last message in the series. I'm talking about what the Bible says about heaven and hell and the second coming of Christ.
Thanks for commenting.
Blessings,
Mark
We pay lip service to the "widows and orphans" thing, but in reality we really just want better bands, more charismatic speakers, and more comfortable seats.We think that whole "take up your cross and follow me" thing makes sense for missionaries, and maybe some pastors and staff, but not really anybody else. We just want to have a good job, and nice house, and live comfortably. We don't really want to hear that death imagery that Jesus liked to use with His followers.
We think that whole "take up your cross and follow me" thing makes sense for missionaries, and maybe some pastors and staff, but not really anybody else. We just want to have a good job, and nice house, and live comfortably. We don't really want to hear that death imagery that Jesus liked to use with His followers.
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