Laity
I hate the word "laity." Always have. I think there is a false dichotomy between "clergy" and "laity." Our language has created a mindset.
Chris Seay spoke on the topic in his session. He quoted Howard E. Butt: "The greatest schism within the church is not between races, classes, or even denominations, it is between the clergy and the laity."
Should we ban the word laity?
What happened to the priesthood of believers? I sure hope I'm not part of the problem as a "pastor." I think God does call people to vocational ministry. And I count it a privilege to get paid to do what I do. But how do we get rid of that schism? How do we end the spiritual co-dependency that is so prevalent in so many churches? How do we decentralize church? How do we overcome the consumer mentality?
I think we're doing some things that facilitate that at NCC. Going on ten missions trips this year is a start at getting people living on mission all the time. I think our free market system of small groups is decentralizing NCC. We want all of our people to get a vision from God and go for it. But like every church I know, we are far from 100% functionality as a church body.
Chris Seay spoke on the topic in his session. He quoted Howard E. Butt: "The greatest schism within the church is not between races, classes, or even denominations, it is between the clergy and the laity."
Should we ban the word laity?
What happened to the priesthood of believers? I sure hope I'm not part of the problem as a "pastor." I think God does call people to vocational ministry. And I count it a privilege to get paid to do what I do. But how do we get rid of that schism? How do we end the spiritual co-dependency that is so prevalent in so many churches? How do we decentralize church? How do we overcome the consumer mentality?
I think we're doing some things that facilitate that at NCC. Going on ten missions trips this year is a start at getting people living on mission all the time. I think our free market system of small groups is decentralizing NCC. We want all of our people to get a vision from God and go for it. But like every church I know, we are far from 100% functionality as a church body.
16 Comments:
Oh, the clergy vs. laity mindset - ugh. There is One Head of the Body, Jesus Christ.
We are all the Body with equal parts and abilities. The day when a man places himself above another is when the Kingdom principles of God begin to crumble.
More of the starfish, and less of the spider.
Mark,
If I am hearing Joel correctly, then I have to agree that the problem is with pastors who see themselves as one thing, and the laity as another.
I have worked in lay ministry for close to ten years now, and do a far better job representing the church than some of my former pastors. The difference in their minds between them and me was that I did not have the pastoral education. Now that I have the education, I still serve as a lay minister, and by many pastors still get treated the same way. It is frustrating to say the least to deal with this kind of mindset.
I'm with you 100% Mark! I serve at my church for free and so does 90% of our ordained ministers.
I want to know, like you, how do we change this culture of 'members' seeing themselves as less than 'clergy'.
There obviously needs to be a shift as you said, but what's the best way to start that shift???
Also, if you have a sec, can you explain what you meant by "free market system" as it relates to your small groups?
Levitepriest hits it on the head when he notes that he and other ministers "serve." Because we're human, any differentiation (clergy vs laity) inherently defines one as less (or greater) than the other. To do away with the "co-dependency" as you called it, pastors must lay down their lives, and be willing to serve (as should we all).
We are all called to serve. Jesus said more than once the reason he came was to serve. Perhaps pastors should worry less about being "leaders" and consider how they could be better servants.
There was a definite layout to how Christ orchestrated the church, and there is supposed to be a difference between elders / pastors / deacons and the rest of the church. Yes, all of the members of the church are to do ministry, but there are people who are put in specific and different roles than the rest of the congregation (Ephesians 4:11-12).
The word, "laity," may be old-fashioned and may have gained a stigma over the years, but it's the best word to describe those who are not in the clergy. Rebranding it as something else (kind of like, "Christian," versus, "Christ-follower") would change the context and alter the function, and deviate from the true intent.
--
Christian
Levitepriest,
By "free market system" we mean this: we let leaders get a vision from God and go for it. They have the freedom to do an inductive Bible study or interest group, etc. We want them to lead out of their God-ordained passion.
Mark
Christian,
I think we need to hand on to biblical words--even words that have leaked their meaning and added baggage. So I think we hang on to pastor, apostle, elder, etc. But "laity" is not a biblical word. So I don't feel like we have to keep it. I guess, biblically, "priesthood of believers" is the most biblical description. But it's a mouthful.
Just thinking out loud.
Mark
Don't treat "volunteers" differently from staff except as is required. Staff are staff whether they're paid or not.
Yes, and let's ban the word volunteer and member. Volunteer in our culture is something you do part time to help out, and being a member is more about your rights and benefits you are entitled to since you've met some obligation.
Either/or they do not convey well or give clarity to what it means to be a follower of Christ or disciple or how we are to truly function as a body of Christ.
Wouldn't a "free market" approach to groups actually increase the consumer mindset of people as they come because you are providing a product (in this case the opportunity to attend or lead a particular group) they want? Of course it does have huge potential to get your leaders on mission as well.
I try to take shots at the clergy/laity idea every time I can when preaching. I don't let people call me pastor and I don't call them by their gift/role in the body.
On an unrelated note, one of the unchurched guys who has started coming out to our church travels a lot for work and since we meet in a theatre he just goes to whatever church he can find that meets in a theatre when he is on the road. He was at NCC a few months ago. I was jealous.
AJ,
By free market we mean leaders have the freedom to get a vision and go for it. But I'm ok with people choosing a group to. I think options are ok. We hope it's a spiritual decision not a consumer decision. We ask people to "pray and ask God to lead them to a group."
Hope that helps explain.
Mark
I think pastors not being paid might flatten things a bit... soon as a "pastor" is paid the schism begins...
Love the thread and the thoughts that are coming out of the trip. Great questions on codependancy and decentralization. Not a whole lot of answers here, but definitely and open ear.
Re: free market system
YEAH!!! That's what I'm talkin about!!! Thanx for the clarity and the response!!!
Also, I think that there is a scripture that sums up what our outlook should be in regard to "laity and clergy". -"But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light."- 1 Peter 2:9.
I think we're all priests who 'minister' in different capacities.
Just my thoughts...
Hey Mark,
Happy Birthday! I'm not too far away from you in Yorktown, VA.
Have you read Greg Ogden's "Unfinished Business"? Early in the book he looks at a lot of the words we use today within the church (or I should say misuse).
Part of his writing is on "clergy" and "laity".
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